But after the disasters of AoC and WAR, they announced by Sep 2008, they would push the release date.
Apparently they had made some design decisions that didn't work in AoC/WAR. They probably learned a lot of lessons from these games. Perhaps it was the siege mechanics that didn't work or the spread out RvR in single realms that were not working in AoC or WAR.
So they sat brainstorming again. Which resulted in 3 founding guys leaving ArenaNEt. The most important one was Jeff Strain who never seems to be able to launch a successful product and always quits 3 years in advance (see WOW and now GW2).
The good thing about this brainstorming is that they saw that single server based MMO's no longer work as such. After the initial launch all single servers die a horrible population death (going from 3K to 500 concurrent players etc...)
So they came up with the idea of Realm vs Realm play. Terrific idea back in 2009, but the implementation is another matter of course.
So until late 2011 they couldn't show off anything about it. The reason was simple: it had to be technically possible.
To make it happen GW2 is just as fragmented and cut up and instanced as GW1 (with bigger loaded zones), but without the needed seamless open world... because the limits on background loading of joining characters from other servers and zones...were too challenging.
So finally GW2 will release with pretty much a dated graphics 9 engine (the game should have been released in 2009), a dated loading graphics system (hence tremendous laggy gameplay when over 30 players fighting) and a newly - not nearly perfected - loading across server mechanism that resulted in 2 hours queuing times to even participate in RvRvR fighting in the last beta weekend.
Disaster in the making of course.
But I am sure the few thousand GW2 fanatacis posting a zillion threads all over the internetz in these last 3 years will try to even talk that one through as the next Messiah in gaming.
TLDR: If Blizzard would release a non open world MMO with long loading screens everywhere, no mount system and a 2 hour waiting queue to do instanced PvP, they would get thousands of thousands of complaints, lawsuits and be killed on arrival with their game. Let alone the lame hard (one way) cash shop found in GW2. You even get a "super" weapon with all stats included when you buy a CE.
The fact the game as such is already sold for 4 months long in shops ... without any servers working ANY time ...shows... how idiotic this gamer's community has become. Blizzard get sued because some can't play for 3 hours at launch... while GW2 buyers couldn't play for 5 months long with a full paid retail version in hand ...
But apparently GW2 makers can get away with it (they think).
I had a chance to play the GW2 beta last weekend, and I have to say I REALLY didn't like the gameplay. Speaking for myself here... everybody's tastes will differ of course ;)
At first I was like "cool! no quests! dynamic events!" The questing model in MMOs has absolutely gotten old and needs rethinking. But I found I really disliked having events popping up around me... pulling me away from whatever I was doing... sometimes right on top of me, heh. And if you hang around the same area for more than a few minutes, the same event pops over and over and over again, which completely eradicates any sense of novelty or verisimilitude :/
And then the activities involved in these events are exactly the same things you do in quests... kill this, collect a bunch of that, escort this dude, and so on. All in a hectic multiplayer environment... everybody else is piling on with no communication or coordination, which makes it really hard to see what is going on or employ anything approaching tactics.
So, yeah. I liked the art, liked the character creation, really couldn't stand the gameplay, heh.
But the real problem with this game will be the underdevelopped part of the RvRvR system like I stated above. They launched a fantastic idea of having a battle system on server against server, but everyone could see in the last weekend it really did not work at all. Queing times of around 2 hours long ? No one accepts a waiting time of 10 minutes these days...
It is odd that all these game companies always make the same mistakes all over again. One of the WORST ideas in WOW were these so called "massive events" happening every pre expansion launch. All you get is the same massive zerging over and over and over. There is no coordination, no personal satisfaction and seeing the event trigger every X minutes is idiotic.
I was always glad they were over with after 3 weeks.
Another remark: do you really think players are interested in 14 days long "work" to conquer something? Video games (not even MMo's are NOT things you live in for 14 days you know.
In War you logged in, you saw those red and blue signs of conquest and after the 3rd day you'd say, "so what", why should I even bother because the moment I go to sleep the situation is changing (or not) anyway...
The same with these "events", whether you do something or not: you have no impact at all. The player feels like a pawn of events that will happen, stay happen and will last - logged out or logged in - forever.
Some people hated so called phasing, but frankly phasing is the only dynamic that doesn't reset as such in an eternal way.
Nope. Global ever repeating events whether in Pve or PvP are not the solution as such.
The cross realm play in the long term IS a solution however and Blizzard already is handling the open world cross realm play in leveling grounds, so once again Blizzard is further ahead than the competition. (and (no graphics load) phasing was a first giant step already to implement this cross realm play btw).
But cheaply produced "world" events that repeat themselves endlessly is not the sliced bread everyone was expecting. I rather prefer the adapted class quests where you can imagine you really killed that boss and it changed something ... for good in that camp in the open world.
GW2 is marketed as some kind of mmo revolution. people will fell for it and GW2 will sell like hot cakes
but after 1-2 months they will realise they can pvp or wait for the next expansion(wow like content paches without subcsription model? not gonna happen)
I...i dont understand. :ponder:
After Diablo 3/Blizzard hate, is venting vitriol towards a unreleased game the new fad in the internet now?
And seriously AlexanderBarin:
GW was a popular, but short lived game. They decided to do the same with GW2, and put it out right when the heat against Blizz is at the highest.
Please explain where I'm wrong.
You are wrong in being a Blizzard's Zealot.
Great posts Benbos, you're alot more patient than me in explaining all this!
Evidence of what? Good business thinking? Don't particularly need evidence there, just study the release patterns of competing products.Quote:
But of course you have no evidence for that other than your own feelings. I mean TL2 is released soon, right when D3 hate is hot! F**k those ex-Blizz North employees, they clearly are butthurt and want to scrap up the D3 leavers!
I LOVE how you somehow conjecture that I even implied it was released at random times. Because, you know I totally said that in my post.
I'm not talking about some company similar to Valve that creates quality standalone games which do not stand the test of time as a "main game" or a perennial source of entertainment. I'm talking about a company that is a legitimate threat to Blizzard if it keeps doing the things that made it rise explosively to the gamer's consciousness in the past 2 years.
Unlike ArenaNet, Riot Games has proven that it can play ball. The company has created a product that ironically enough, expanded on a concept introduced in Warcraft 3 (League of Legends), but made it way more popular and memorable than its predecessor. League of Legends will be or is already the number 1 eSport in South Korea, with major tournaments on the OGN network - something StarCraft 2 was unable to achieve due to poor Blizzard relations with eSports facilitators in that country. It currently IS the number one played game in South Korea in the PC bangs and in general, and could easily be the number one played game in the world. The game boasts a rabid fan base with its streamers breaking streaming records and garnering higher popularity than gamers ever have. Statistics such as Xfire support this.
Unlike the Call of Duty franchise, LoL's appeal and reach extends far beyond American borders, proving itself a viable game in the competitive European and Asian markets. Call of Duty is a profitable franchise, but is not a viable eSport or memorable international product. Until LoL, Blizzard had a monopoly in the eSports sector with StarCraft 1, but that is quickly changing now due to the various moves Riot has made in its rise to glory.
I have never seen another company nail the profiting aspect as well as Riot did. Essentially, make a game free to play, and derive your money from the aesthetic bonuses and features of your game. That way, no one feels that they are at a disadvantage for not buying skins since the game is not hinged on whether or not you purchase these bonuses, and buyers derive a certain gratification from being able to decorate themselves in virtual goods that other folks can't necessarily buy. Riot took a page out of Team Fortress 2 with the hats, knowing that people will go to great lengths to spend money on ridiculously frivolous things even if they only distinguished characters in the most trivial ways. Essentially, Riot understood that people pay TONS of dollars for amazingly small things. Riot understood the psychological aspect behind people treating themselves bit by bit with virtual goods.
But the fact that none of those virtual extras affected game play also legitimized LoL as a viable game in the competitive circuit. The problem with StarCraft 2 is that after the initial sales, there really is no incentive to better the game outside of maximizing profits with eSports. In contrast, LoL has balance patches and new champion updates pretty much every two weeks. The LoL developers seem to interact heavily with the community and are INCREDIBLY sensitive to player feedback. As in, most balance patches actually address many of the issues that the community feels are underpowered or overtuned. As a gamer, Riot just seems incredibly in touch and mainstream with the gamers. Spend just a few months playing LoL, and you will notice a very clear difference in how Riot meshes with the community, and how Blizzard meshes with the community.
While Blizzard is an excellent company, I feel that it is not as in touch with its player base as Riot is with the LoL player base. A lot of the decisions that Blizzard has made do not seem to touch on the players' true desires, or are just out of touch with what the general population really wants. People complain about balance issues and such all the time in WoW, StarCraft 2, and Diablo, but you will much more rarely hear such complaining in LoL. Blizzard is great, but it is no Riot Games when it comes to servicing games. Imagine if Blizzard had a MAJOR patch every two weeks with new content and significant balance updates. Imagine if Blizzard just seemed to nail every single problem and criticism of your game with great precision. No other company in the history of gaming would ever be a threat to it.
Riot's business model is so genius that whoever put it all together really needs a medal of some sort. Continuously create content while responding to the needs of the players in a timely fashion. Create that connection between the developers and the gamers. Seems so simple, yet it has all been so lost in the hoopla for profits and moneymaking above games today. Let's see how ArenaNet does.