We know EA’s license time has run out now, Conquest being its last game.  What happens now?  Are you talking to anyone about the license and what are the procedures that need to be taken to secure a license as big as this?

We’re in negotiation right now, and we’ve spoken to a lot of videogame developers and publishers over the last few years including EA.  This is something we’ve done with our colleagues at New Line Cinema, who are now Warner Bros. and weighed up the pros and cons.  Obviously some of it was financial, but a great part of it was who could do the best job with the lore.  It’s interesting that most of the companies have someone who will blow your mind when they talk to you about the trilogy and The Hobbit, so that’s a passage we’ve gone through over the last couple of years and we’re now in negotiations, but we haven’t finalised a deal but we’re very close. There are going to be Lord of the Rings games of course, but there will also be The Hobbit games too, based on the films.


Well if New Line Cinema, the guys responsible of the trilogy, has joined Warner Bros. and with Warner Bros.’ new gaming division now doing some big film titles as games in, like Terminator and Wanted, wouldn’t it make sense that they were the next license holders?

Warner Bros. is definitely a player, and yes they’re new into the field, but as you pointed out, they’re working with some good people.  We’ve had a relationship with Warner Bros. not only through the New Line experience, but for our film library.  We’re a small film company here too, and they’ve handled a lot of our film distribution in the past.


Well, it would make sense I suppose now they’re publishers, distributors and now developers.  It seems like a great package.

That’s right.

So when can we expect the next LotR title to be out and what platforms it’ll be on?

We’re hoping that something will be out by Christmas this year, but we’re not sure.  There have been a lot of changes in the last two years which have been unforeseen so that has a bearing.  But we’re hoping for Christmas.  We’ll keep you posted on that one.


OK, if I’m a small developer and I wanted to apply for the IP, what would I need to do as a small fish?  And would I get the license for years and multiple titles, or would I be restricted to a short time frame?

Well we’ve gone both ways with that with some licenses being granted for years while others have gone for one game with the condition of expanding if the game meets our expectation for quality.  Sometimes there is a financial component to that and there would be room for an expansion or a second game and we’d be open to negotiations on that.  All the applications have been a little different even though the licensing hasn’t been around for that long.  About 20 years or so.  We’ve had several different t licensees and they’ve all had different agreements.  As for application: we’re a pretty open company and you can come to us and say, “I have an idea” and if you could legitimately follow through with the idea, we’ll talk to you.

We met Turbine, for example, through our relationship with Vivendi.  They were pitching something that they hadn’t really done before.  They had done Dungeons and Dragons, sure, but we didn’t know who they were.  Over a period of time you meet and talk and you see how committed they are, and then there’s a little leap of faith.  It’s kind of like a marriage.


It’s interesting really because an MMO is no small undertaking.  LotRO is one of the biggest MMOs out there.  It’s true to the books and it looks like how you’d expect it to in your head, especially the mines.  You must have been very happy with they way they’ve done it.

Yes, I mean happy isn’t the word.  We’re ecstatic.  It’s stuck to the lore and ticked all the boxes. 


Are there any personal stories you’d like to influence in your position, you know something that you wish someone would expand on?  Or do you just let people get on with their ideas? 

There have been times when we’ve said and noted [to Turbine] that we’d like to see something going in that direction or the other, but we pretty much leave them to do their own thing.
There are times when something will come in for us to look at months in advance of when it’s going to make it into the game and our comments are minimal, but there is a little area to tweak which seems huge to us, but very minimal compared to what they’ve gone through to get there.


So no major blow-ups with anyone?  You’ve not had anyone turn to you and just say “we’re going to go with what we have” to which you’ve stopped it in its tracks and withdrawn the license?

Yeah, we have had that happen, but mostly not on our watch.  We’ve had some experiences with some licensees where we’ve had to persuade them from going down a certain path and have had to stick firm with that.  For example, places a videogamer might want to go somewhere that isn’t appropriate for the Tolkien license.  I don’t really want to go into it.  But those are rough times because you feel like the bad person or the bad licensor and you know that it’s just not appropriate and you know why they want to go there, and as we said earlier, they’re the experts and know their market.  Then you have the fanatical fans of the lore who would just freak out if we allowed certain things to happen.

Have you had any problems with people that haven’t actually come to you for a license?  If so, what happens then?

[Laughter] This happens frequently and is a good part of our every-day.  A lot of the problems come from the people who believe they have some ownership of the lore and feel like they can do whatever they want with it.  It falls upon us to explain to them that they can’t.  Sometimes that really hurts because it’s not an easy thing to do.


Where would you find most of the unofficial and unlicensed stuff?  Is it on the web, or on shop fronts and places like that for example?

It’s anything.  It can be from somebody opening up a restaurant to a mountaineering store, to games to fan films.  The list is endless really.  If you can imagine a product, a thing or creation, someone is doing it and calling Arwen, or Legolas or Erestor.  Every once in a while we like what people are doing and set up a license for them!  We would prefer it if people came to us first though.


So where do you draw the line with things like fan fiction, as mentioned before, some people feel like they have a right of ownership almost of the lore?  Do you let fan fiction go, and chase the people that are making money out of it, or doesn’t it matter?

You’ve hit the nail on the head there.  If people are doing it out of love and there is no commercial exploitation out of it, we support it I suppose you could say.  We understand it and appreciate it and would hope to allow it to co-exist.  When it goes into the commercial world it becomes more complicated because a lot of that is down to trademark laws and how much exploitation you can allow on your mark before you give up on it, so to speak.


If you had one thing that you guys could push through as the license holders that would keep a little bit of you in that world of Tolkien, what would it be?  I know you’re massive fans, so it can be anything from a sword to a game to a Gandalf staff!

Sam:  Personally, I’m looking forward to a game on the Wii.  I think there’s not a LotR game or The Hobbit game on the Wii right now, and that’s something that needs to be exploited sooner rather than later.

Joe:  You know, that is a tough question.  I’d have to kick my LotRO addiction before I can think clearly about that.  I am completely happy with what Turbine have done.  Yeah.  Personally and professionally I am completely happy with LotRO.  I think they demonstrated that they know the lore really well and they care about preserving its quality as much as we do.

Fredrica:  I love the Wii.  I am a little bit of a dope when it comes to videogames, but I’d love to see what somebody would do with that because it would be right up my alley.  I have played LotRO, and it’s really hard to leave at the end of the day.

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