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MMO Weekly Page 2
 Jeff Hollis 

McQuaid and his buddies never realised that raid content was wrecking their game, and they continued making more and more raid content.  Did they make more dungeons, too?  Yeah, but for every dungeon they introduced, they introduced more raid content, making that dungeon pale and undesirable by comparison.   

EverQuest 2I was once told by an MMO developer that they had studied raids in other MMOs, and that they had discovered something extremely odd.  More than 95 percent of all players in a given MMO never, ever experience a given piece of raid content.  Less than five percent of players did.  So, in essence, MMO developers spend months designing raids that only the most elite, hardcore players will ever see.  "And what about all those other players," I hear you asking, "the more ordinary, casual ones?"  The developers' answer appeared to be, "Go away, kid, I'm busy designing this cool raid where the players kill a demigod and get cool loot.  It's epic!"

Allow me, at this juncture, to shift gears a moment, and talk about the other game upon which WoW is based.  That game is Dark Age of Camelot.  DAoC follows the same mechanic as its predecessor, EverQuest.  Form a group, clear out a dungeon, kill a boss, and get some cool loot.  And, like EQ, when players reached the endgame, the developers decided to change all the rules, and do something completely different from the fun stuff that made everyone enjoy the game so much.  DAoC introduced the Realm versus Realm (RvR) combat on predetermined battlegrounds (BGs).  However, the setup essentially required you to form large, organised groups to do this successfully.  So, RvR was essentially a raid in which you killed other players on a battleground, instead of a boss in a dungeon.  If you were good at this new kind of PvP raid, and were willing to do it for hours on end, you unlocked new talents and abilities.

Now, the battlegrounds weren't as bad as raids.  You didn't have to get 40 people together, you could just form ordinary groups to fight in the battlegrounds.  But the battlegrounds were unbalanced.  You could show up with eight guys, and the other team would have 50.  People began to form strategies based on this.  Entire guilds would log on at 0300hrs to attempt to take battleground fortresses, knowing that no one would be on to defend them.  

World of WarcraftAgain, this whole system pretty much screwed the casual player.  Sure, you could jump into a battleground every now and then, play for a while, and then log out.  But the people who were super-hardcore about it - who joined a psychotic guild willing to wake up at 3am to win a temporary BG victory - gained more PvP experience, and unlocked more abilities faster than you could ever hope for.  They became much tougher, much stronger, much more powerful than the ordinary player.  If you weren't part of a hardcore RvR guild, and you weren't willing to sacrifice hour after hour doing this, you were pretty much out of luck.  The overwhelming majority of players never played that much RvR; only a small minority of folks participated at that level.  

Like EQ, there were consequences for this emphasis on RvR.  Hardcore RvR players had lots of extra abilities, could take more damage, dish out more, and were simply better than ordinary players.  They became super-powerful, and achieved a kind of elevated, preferred status.  The people that continued to clear dungeons and defeat bosses couldn't really compete, and became second-class citizens in a game they loved.

So let me ask you, my fellow gamer, the fundamental question that these two examples bring to mind:  why did the developers of these two influential MMOs change the basic mechanic of the game when people reached the level cap?  Why did they get away from a style of play (Form a group-Clear a dungeon-Kill a boss-Get some loot) that goes back all the way to Dungeons and Dragons?  Why?  
There is no clear answer.  Both games, as influential as they were, lost their way when players reached the endgame.  When all the bosses had been defeated, players became bored.  And since the average player enjoyed, and wanted, dungeons and boss encounters more than anything else, the developers repeatedly gave them...more raids and more RvR.   

In part 2 of  "The Long, Slow Suicide of World of Warcraft", I'll discuss how these decisions by developers left players World of Warcraftdisillusioned by both EQ and DAoC, and made those games vulnerable the moment a new MMO came along.  In addition, I'll discuss how WoW is doing the exact same thing.       

On that note, I must leave you until next week.  Ciao for now!

N4G : News for Gamers

Related Info

Champions of Norrath Realms of EverQuest
Dark Age of Camelot Trials of Atlantis
EverQuest 2
EverQuest Depths of Darkhollow
EverQuest Gates of Discord
EverQuest II Desert of Flames
EverQuest II: The Shadow Odyssey
EverQuest Online Adventures
EverQuest Online Adventures Frontiers
EverQuest: Seeds of Destruction
Lords of EverQuest
World of Warcraft
World of Warcraft The Burning Crusade
World of Warcraft: Wrath of the Lich King
Developer:Snowblind Studios
Publisher:SOE / Ubi Soft
Release:TBC
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User comments

(1) Posted: 11:38 on 30 Jun 2009
thief
I'd like to point out that both EQ and DAoC were and still are considered successful, and that WoW has raids - indeed 40 man ones back in the day - AND battlegrounds, and is still gaining subscribers, not losing them.

Blizzard has introduced 10 man versions of new raids for the exact purpose of allowing more 'regular' players access to these, previously hardcore-only, events. I would say that Blizzard saw what was going wrong with end game and is actively working to prevent end game from being elite only. I've raided more since WotLK and its 10 man raids came out that I ever did in all my 4 years playing the game.

I'll be interested to see what part 2 of this article will contain :)
(2) Posted: 10:58 on 01 Jul 2009
Luke Kneller
Very good points Jeff, but I think thief is right! Blizard are already acting on it!

In FFXI you can do something like raiding but you join parties together. Unfortunatly it's not easy to advertise your group for wanting to join these events but it would've been nice to put up a "flag" for your already together party of 6, to be ready for raiding and for another party to join up etc until you have the 3 party limit ready to do it.
(3) Posted: 14:17 on 01 Jul 2009
captaubrey
Raids are were the loot is, but dungeons are where the fun is. I have to say that having played wow since beta Jeff is on to something here. I've raided all content in wow and there's something to be said for raids. They are fun at first, the loot is great. It takes great skill and determination to progress. But overall raiding seems more like a job than fun. Nax in WOTLK changed that a bit because nax was super easy until the last couple of bosses. But Ulduar is tough and puts us back to the old grind. Ulduar will not be pugged successfully and I'm sure Blizzard will notice the drop in raid progression.

One other point that I'm sure Jeff is going to make is 10 man dungeons do not cure the problem. You soon realize that there's no point to running 10 man dungeons since the loot is sub-par.
(4) Posted: 14:18 on 01 Jul 2009
captaubrey
Bah, no edit button on these comments? Yes I know how to spell 'where.'
(5) Posted: 17:29 on 01 Jul 2009
Luke Kneller
There should be an edit button! But i'll do it for you!
(6) Posted: 17:48 on 01 Jul 2009
ArelMCII
First of all, the only numbers in this article are without citation and seemingly pulled from thin air.

Second, not everyone cares of their gear is subpar. You don't have to be a hardcore raider/pvper to have fun.

Third, BG's have never been better.

Fourth, D&D didn't start with "Pwn this dungeon, get phat loot," and saying so condemns you as the elitist you are. If you believe that's all a good game should have in it, you shouldn't be the one writing this article.

/nerdrage off
(7) Posted: 18:44 on 01 Jul 2009
Leviathonlx
"One other point that I'm sure Jeff is going to make is 10 man dungeons do not cure the problem. You soon realize that there's no point to running 10 man dungeons since the loot is sub-par."

While that point is partially true you need to remember that is what hard modes were for. Blizzard even goes further with this in 3.2 with both the normal 10 and 25 man giving the same iLvL loot and the heroic 10 and 25 man giving the same iLvL loot.

This entire article just seems to be using examples of things in past games that do not even apply to WoW any longer.
(8) Posted: 19:08 on 02 Jul 2009
Krys
Jeff - I find your article difficult to read - not because of the English, but the way you present your argument. In essence, the core of the argument lies on the predecessors to WoW and how they created their game design, the way WoW copied it, and in your eyes, why they will fail.

There is a major problem with this - it's keenly obvious you haven't played the predecessors and know very little about the background of those games and more importantly, how those games were actually played back in the day.

EverQuest with 40 raid members? Killing through a dungeon to get to the final boss during times to "level up"? After reading this, I'm not even sure you know what the PNP is (hint: Play Nice Policy).

While I can appreciate your interest in wanting to help out WoW by offering background information and pointing out its flaws, unfortunately it falls flat with the misinformation provided. Other major things to consider - AA points? What about games called Sojourn and Duris?

At this time, calling the decline of a major title based on one facet of its multi-faceted offerings seems a bit short sighted. Casual gamers in WoW have more content to play with than at launch, from PvP to grouping to small raids that they can join small guilds to complete.

While I agree that WoW is declining (in fact, I no longer play), what I don't agree with is the "why" in the argument you're presenting - and unfortunately, I don't think you have enough background knowledge and experience. Good luck to you though!
(9) Posted: 19:17 on 02 Jul 2009
Bazzaar
I only disagree with Jeff in as much that I believe MMOs are even more fundamentally flawed than this article states.
Already the thread has focussed in on the details of things like raid mechanics when the whole game concept is pointless. Yes I said pointless.
In all these MMOs what do you achieve? What as a player are you aiming toward? As it stands it seems little more than, make my avatars attributes numerically higher so he can go onto do quest/missions/raids against NPCs with numerically higher attributes, in an upward spiral of "bigger-numbers-but-nothing-else-has-really-changed" until you hit the completely artificial barriers and limits of cap limit and/or no more content!
And then when you look back at the environment you are in, did you change it in anyway? no, the princess still needs rescuing, the dragon still needs slaying, not by you maybe but the other players coming up their own numbers spiral. And when you look at your avatar, is he special in any way? unique at all? no, just the same as all the other players avatars at that level of development, YOU are not THE hero. And the MMO aspect, how many of the 11+ million players did you interact with? hardly any, you went around with your mates/guildmates most of the time, in an instance to isolate you group from the rest of the populace, and you complain about Lagrimmar/Lagforge.
(10) Posted: 00:05 on 03 Jul 2009
keithwdowd
My perspective on this article (and this issue, in general) aligns with Bazzaar's previous comments. Regardless of whether large-scale raids killed MMOs of the past, and are presently killing WoW, the fact still remains that MMOs, as a game concept, are problematic due to a lack of a player-controlled narrative. In short, the player's actions have no impact on the broader game world, and a game without a player-driven narrative is little more than a cookie-cutter amusement park ride. In fact, I would argue that this problem extends beyond MMOs into other genres of games as well. For instance, The Call of Duty franchise is often guilty of following this very same route of game design, although at least your actions, while seemingly on rails to a certain extent, do in effect actually affect the NPCs you interact with as you proceed from one level to next, even if only in a superficial manner, as well as determine the outcome of the game narrative (though not necessarily its direction).
(11) Posted: 10:20 on 03 Jul 2009
Luke Kneller
I think these comments you guys are writing are an article in itself!

So many good points. I've always hated the "everyone is THE hero" aspect of MMOs. TBH I've only ever used an MMO as a chat-room with a mini-game.
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